Adopting a Sales-Led Culture with Scott Hebert, SYSPRO Americas

Hi, this is Clint,

And this is Lizzy.

Today we had a great show with Scott Hebert, the CRO of Syspro. I just thought it was a really neat show because he's such a human leader with such an engaging personality. In fact, I even said at one point in the podcast that this is the type of guy that I'd like to work for. I really enjoyed today's show.

One of the things that he had said, which I think is probably where you got that takeaway, Clint, is that he believes you have to lead by example. As a CEO, CRO, whatever leadership role you're in, you need to be curious. You need to be a part of the team.

Yes. Roll up your sleeves, be part of the team lead by example. He talked about how the command and control approach of leadership of the 50s is long past behind us. He's definitely a modern leader who's got his head screwed on straight.

As soon as he said, Stephen Covey, I knew what was coming. I don't remember the name of the book. But that's a list of that show again to hear it. Listening to Stephen Covey reading his material and learning the concept of trusting and believing in your team.

Today we dug into sales-lead growth. That was our topic kicking off episode one of season three. This is our 13th recording. Can you believe that, Lizzie?

Cannot, cannot at all.

Let's turn it over to the audience and let them enjoy today's podcast. Thanks for joining us today on the Fuel Growth podcast.

What is the right growth equation for your company? Is it pipeline?

Brand? Customers?

Products? Employees?

Join us as we interview CEOs, entrepreneurs and seasoned executives to explore what it takes to propel your business into growth. Joining us today is Scott Hebert, Chief Revenue Officer of Syspro Americas. Syspro is an enterprise resource planning software solution for companies of all sizes in the manufacturing and distribution sectors. With over 25 years experience in his profession, Scott brings in-depth experience in building successful sales strategies and demonstrates strong management skills along with a commitment to a customer-centric and partner-centric approach. Welcome to the pod Scott.

Thank you, Clint. Glad to be here.

Scott, thank you for joining us today. You may know in previous episodes, we unpacked product-led growth topics marketing-lead growth, and even recently, channel led growth. We are switching things up a bit with you on the show today, where we want to focus on the sales-lead approach. So we're interested in learning about your story. And taking your advice around how best to approach a sales-lead model or strategy. Before we do that, though, we always like to ask an icebreaker question. And ours for you today is what is the best career advice that you received?

That's a great question. So there's three in mind. The first is there's a two rule advice. The first of that rule is people buy from people they like. And number two is see rule number one, it's amazing. You have to build good relationships with whoever is looking to work with you, they want to know you care about them, and they trust you. And that really goes a long way. The second one I was thinking about was years ago, early in my career, someone said always under-promise and over-deliver. Because the opposite is never good. It's not only a good bit of advice for selling, it's a good advice for life. I tend to want to make sure that I promised my better half my wife, Jeanne, that I'll be home at 6pm. I didn't get home at 5:45 versus getting home at eight from work really messes things. The last one, the last one I like it's not really advice, but I learned this from one of my mentors. Is that in selling, sometimes, when the answer is no, the best response is yes. And what I mean by that is when a customer clearly asks you a question, does your product do this? Or does your solution do this? And they're looking for a "No" answer. Sometimes, most times, what the best response is, "Yes, I understand what you're trying to achieve. And here's why I believe our solution is a better option. Let me tell you about why". And I learned this from one of my mentors, because I was through several meetings with him where he never actually said the word "No". He redirected because the customer had a misperception of what they wanted and redirected towards a better solution. And I love that I take that with me everywhere I go.

"Yes, if", right?

"Yes, I see what you're trying to do. Let me tell you why this is a better way to do that". And it also kind of comes down the Challenger sale of Challenger customer to get them to say, Hey, I didn't think about that. And that meeting was helpful because I walked away with new information.

Yes, because, in the end, that's the purpose of a seller. To help guide somebody through a decision making process. Right? And locking down opportunities and different ways to think that's not what you're there for. You're there to unlock possibilities. I love it. That's great stuff. All right. So now let's get to know you even better. So give us a bit of the your origin story behind the person who likes to say yes, if we find the person who likes to build those relationships with people. What led you to your career in sales? And how did you come to Syspro?

That's a great question. And I want to take it quite back to where I was born. But I think I'll take it from out of grad school I luckily was doing on-campus interviews and interviewed with IBM. And it was interesting because I was MBA graduate, and there was a whole roomful of engineers. And I saw the value that I brought have also been in a lot of sales my entire life, just through college jobs and high school jobs. But going to IBM was a great experience. And one of my mentors told me, they said, if you can figure out how to be successful here at IBM, you can figure it out anywhere. And I took that with me, I was there for almost a decade,

So many people I know in the software industry got there started IBM as well.

And such good people, they operate with the utmost integrity, and are really focused on making sure the customer is successful. And then after a decade or so I got a call to join Salesforce. And quite honestly, I had to look up Salesforce and understand who it was it was that new and its origin, it seems hard to believe now. But it was a great next move to work for Marc Benioff, and really see a marketing sales leader driving software and driving change in the industry. And so that was a phenomenal place to be especially being the David versus Goliath. At the time, we were up against all the major players, and we were this little tiny company of a couple 100 people. So that was fabulous to be in that position to really be a game changer. And even literally, teaching prospects what software as a service was and helping them understand.

Are we calling it back to the early days on demand application service provider than on demand? Yeah. As in software as a service. You're all those?

Exactly. So I think that was a great place. And then I think just over my career been in sales, and which led me to Syspro. And I've taken on the Chief Revenue Officer role leaving the Americas, it's just been a great thing, because I think I've also seen that where I was at Salesforce and other companies like box we were connecting into Europe. What's fascinating about this is ERP is basically the bread and butter of the entire manufacturing business, from raw materials in the front, back door, to finished product on the production line to out the back door for shipping, billing and receiving and accounts payable. And it's just critical to how the whole business runs. And I think versus just being connected to this is the solution that runs our company.

So what is it about sales that really makes Scott's heart sing, righ? But there's got to be something if you spent your whole career doing there's got to be part that just really lights you up. What is that piece?

I think that the thing is, we're in a role to help people solve problems, we're not really selling, we're just trying to solve problems. I often tell my sales team is like what, if you do your job? Well, you're going to help a person that maybe works 12 to 14 hours a day, maybe work eight to 10 hours a day, and maybe get home to have dinner with the family, if you don't do your job well, and you don't help them prepare for what they're going to buy, and what's the responsibility on their side, that you could put their career at risk. So it's very critical that we do the right job and solve the problem for the customer. So I think it's about relationship building, it's about building trust, there's nothing more important than when you're trying to make a personal decision on any kind of a purchase, whether it's a home a car, or a new job is that you trust the people that you're talking to and trust that you're making the right decision. And you have to have that. So trust is of the utmost…

Trust is a key part?

Yes. And I think I've just always operated on that level. And that's funny. I think sometimes sales can be seen as a guy fell on the sales. But I think sales is what drives every company. It really drives the revenue, it really drives growth. It is really what helps a company get to the next level because no product is so good that it sells itself.

Very smart person once said to me, "life is sales", by the way that was my wife. So when we get on the call, because a very smart person who was convincing me that I needed to empty the dishwasher. Life is sales.

Like is sales.

Every parent out there knows life has sales.

Absolutely. If you're trying to get your child to eat their broccoli, you're in sales, right? And we often forget that, that we we use it every single day. I think so often, folks will tell you and I "I can never be in sales". Yes, you're already in sales.

You're already in sales. You just need to realize.

I know we're gonna dig in that.

Lizzy, go ahead.

We're gonna get there for sure. And I have a feeling that the trust in people, in relationships and whatnot, all of those things are probably going to be a theme for for today. There is one thing that we've heard over and over from our guests, Scott. That business growth, in general, starts with having the right culture. And one of the things I was really interested in learning from you is what does the sales culture within a company mean to you?

I truly believe you have to create a culture and that, as we just said, everyone is in sales. And by that I mean, everyone should be prepared to tell friends, family, new acquaintances what you do and why it's important. And one of the things I've always found is really important is to make sure that every employee gets certified on kind of that first pitch deck. And it sounds really foreign to a developer, to say, "what, why do you want me to do this?" But if you take the time, and they go through and make sure they understand how to explain what your company is, why it's important, what problems it solves, and who are some of your key customers, you've already opened up the door to a new potential customer. And that can happen at a backyard barbecue at your children's school, a dinner party or even church. Everybody always asked, What do you do? What do you do for a living? What's your profession, you should have a good story to tell. And I think it's interesting, because I've seen some people get stressed out about that, that aren't necessarily in sales. But I think it's so important that every single person can tell at least a 32nd story of what you are and why it's important. And why do you work there. And I think that's, that's part of the sales culture. I think also just celebrating that every time we win, or help a customer or make a difference in a customer's lives. It's the whole team's effort that made that happen. It's not just Joe from sales. It's everyone in this in the entire organization that helped us get.

Yeah, I think the elevator pitch, if you will, for dinner parties, like you're mentioning out and about sitting on an airplane beside someone that's interested in what you're doing is really important, regardless of the position. Totally agree with you on that. I'm really curious. So what we just described is more prospective, right? You're having conversations trying to get people to know more about your company. On the flip side, if you already have customers within your business, I'd be interested to know what practical tips that you've found effective to embed a company-wide sales culture where every employee understands how to feed information back through into a potential sales opportunity. And before you answer, I'll give you a really good example. And why this is so interesting to me. I recently, I went to look for leadership, development opportunities through prestigious universities. And I was trying to find a program that would fit my needs. And there was one in particular very well known University, I won't name them here, really interested in their program, couldn't find any pricing, I reached out to give them feedback on their website and was very obvious, I was interested. And the person responded with five words, thank you for your feedback. They didn't say I'm so sorry, you couldn't find pricing. Let me get that information to you. Let me make sure that you have some information that proves that we're interested in your business. And of course, this is B2C. But I see this a lot. And wondering if you if you've seen in your in your past experience, maybe not you personally having developed programs within businesses, but if you've seen others implement effective tools to mitigate situations like that

You touched on several topics, every interaction with a customer is of the utmost importance. One single poor interaction can ruin the relationship for life. And also, they will tell two people that will tell two more people for example. Most folks are more easily and ready to tell a negative story about a product than a positive one. So you have to realize everything counts. But as far as tools, the one thing that I think is so important is that everyone works from the same set of data. And obviously, with what Clint your experiences with my experience around CRM, I've always viewed CRM as a portal to everything in your company. And if everyone's working from that, you will all got the same set of information. Because an ERP system and a finance system and an HR system on the back end, it will have information that can be brought into a CRM system that everybody sees, and everybody's on the same moment in time. And so that if you've already asked a customer a question, it's somewhat insulting to get asked it a second and third time. Yeah, by a second and third person, they should have that data at their fingertips. So I think that's part of making that positive interaction always there. And there's no excuse for it these days, because we all have the data. We all have the information our fingertips, we just have to make sure that there's a disciplined and diligent about using it every single day. Like everyone knows how important it is to make notes that everyone else can see and share those companywide through a system like CRM.

Excellent point. Thank you.

So we've talked a bit now about creating a sales culture across the company. And he gave examples of everybody being able to deliver the elevator pitch and that sort of thing. Let's dig into the sales team itself. You've led sales teams your whole career. How would you describe the culture of the winning sales team?

One of the best aspects of a winning sales team is being willing to lose. And it's kind of contradictory. Because the last thing anybody in sales wants to do is tag I lost an opportunity or get on a weekly sales call and report that they lost an opportunity. I was just on company wide call. And one of the advice I give to our salespeople was if you're not losing deals If you're not working hard enough. And from what I mean from that is, if you're only working on the low hanging fruit, you're only going to grow so much as a company. What the really good salespeople do is they reach up for the higher hanging fruit, the harder deals to win. And getting to those means they might not win them. But that's okay. And having that allowance that, go for it, make sure you're trying for those harder ones. If there's ones we're just not going to win, that's okay, we can, you can walk away from those deals, but try for those ones that are a bit higher hanging. Otherwise, you're just going to stay at the same growth pattern, you always have that. And I think that's so important because it sets a mindset of, I'm going to go at all effort to win this. And even when it's a challenge, because we've seen deals that we didn't think we can win, and we do win them. So I do think having that allowance to make those mistakes is really important. Because if there's fear of repercussions of losing a deal and you lose your job, you're not going to take any chances. And I think that's something that has to be instilled in our salespeople.

Yeah, definitely, it stifles creativity, too.

All those words, analogies, come to mind, right? Taking shots you've lost, you will miss 100% of the shots you never take. But if we're a fantastic baseball players got to 250 or 300 batting average, which means they're missing. They're not getting on base 70% of the time, that sort of thing. But the whole point in there, I think you're saying is you got to you got to be swinging, you got to be going for the fences, you got to be put yourself in the game, huh?

Absolutely. And also just acknowledging that you're not going to win every deal. And we as a product or a solution are not going to win every opportunity and acknowledging that, but just let's win the ones where we can, let's win the ones where it's, you know, a little bit more risky, because that's where the real growth is going to come from. And that's where you start discovering, there might be an entire industry that you're an excellent fit for. Because industry, verticals within companies don't come about because you decide you go win a deal, you learn the industry, and then you rinse and repeat. And so taking the chances learning about a new industry is an excellent avenue for growth within any company. And I think sometimes we're like no, don't go there. We don't do that well. And there's certain ones where you don't want to participate in. But you really have to go in and find out because we learned so much going through that selling cycle. And then the other part of that is making sure that the team puts in the system, why did we win this? What were the key problems the customer is trying to solve, where were we a perfect fit, where were we not a perfect fit. So everybody else learns from that so that you can use that on future opportunities. Sharing of information sharing of why you won or lost is so important. It's interesting to sales reps love to mark a deal as a win, and then talk about all the reasons why they won. The hate to talk about all the reasons they lost. But as a company, it's so important to know exactly why we lost. And it can't just be the guy didn't like my face, it can't be split like that. It's got to be because of these things, these features functionalities, a match, we did get to a certain decision maker, those types of things that lessons we can learn. And we can improve our product every single day. And I think salespeople need to know that when they put the loss information in there. And they really take it seriously it helps us improve as a company every single day.

I love how you bring it back to CRM. That's great.

I'm really curious about this, you mentioned "make sure that these notes are well within the CRM". And of course, I would totally agree with that being in the space that I'm in. On the other side, though, I am interested to know you've got CRM, which it's a point of access that any you would assume any sales rep would have access to see the information. How do you make sure that it's widespread knowledge, though, rather than having the expectation that a sales representative will go into a deal for, for example, and look at why did we win or lose this? In other words, do have you seen especially in the remote world, an opportunity or programs that you've put in place to make sure that sales teams are sharing information more widely with each other?

Yes, that's a great question. Obviously, I also think that not just sales team, but product teams, support teams, everyone should be on that same system, because there's so much insightful information and also, just that sharing of knowledge when anyone gets on the phone. But I think one of the things that you've got your weekly sales calls, and you've also one of the things I installed, when I was earlier in my career was I just did, I called it the sharing and caring call. It wasn't management. It was just me as a sales rep getting every single salesperson to just get on a call and talk about what's working, what's not working. It's great having that open forum in a safe environment. It's interesting when we first started using social solutions within the workplace. It was interesting, because everyone wasn't quite sure what we put in there. And I remember developing a group called Airing of Grievances. And it was really interesting because you had one social group instance where everybody could just share their grievances and sometimes it just instilled that like it's okay to share. Some folks that are over sharing you need to make sure somebody doesn't over state some things, but it's important to make sure that that's occurring. And I think any kind of tool where everyone's on the same system is so important. But that's the most important thing. I think this takes it beyond just sales and is not only celebrating sales successes, because one of the things I've always instilled is we do a sales win notice, and it's not just and you can trigger your CRM to say, we won this deal. Great. Everybody sees it. But what I really like is when it adds details about who was the competition, why were we selected? What were some of the critical points that made it happen, and you put that out there, either through the CRM system automatically triggered, or even in a little bit more marketing-driven email. Because everybody likes to know you're getting wins. Everybody in the company know you're putting scores on them. But I also like to make sure that we celebrate a support win, where our support team supported the customer and got an incredible compliment from a customer. What we do is we send out notes that have the quotes from customers, and we acknowledge the support team that brought that win. from a support perspective. I think you can also do it from marketing, if we have an effective sales events, right? Exactly. Everything should be celebrated as if it is a sales win. And it brings everybody into feeling good about what they do and the impact that they're having.

Alright, heard here, take the big shots, go after the big deals, push the envelope, I heard, celebrate the wins, share the success. But also take the time to deconstruct the losses and understand why you lost in and around that is the whole idea of sharing, sharing is caring, right. And then I also heard in there, leverage the tools like your CRM systems to enable that sharing and take good notes and that sort of thing. And then I also heard in there the whole endeavor, it's a team sport, and everybody has their own wins, and everybody has their own places to learn from. Let's let's take it a little bit deeper into the elements of a sales engine, if you will, right. What are those tried and true elements that you're thinking about in a successful sales-lead growth model? I'm thinking things like prospecting, pipeline, stability, things like that, what what are, what are the topics that really come to mind for you that you drive with your sales teams?

Great. And I might add one flavor to that. I think one of the biggest mistakes I hear from sales leaders is they aren't in CRM, that's from my team. That's for my my VPs of sales to be in. I think everyone including the CEO should be a CRM. One of the most effective things I had happened early in my career was when I was at Salesforce was Marc Benioff shot me a quick note, I think it was about 1230 at night, show me a quick note and said, Hey, Scott, I went to college with the CFO there, let me know how I can help. Because he looked in CRM, he looked at the deal, he looked at what I was working on, and it was important to him, and it. And when I saw it at 12:30, at night, for my CEO, I couldn't sleep for a while. So it definitely had an impression on me. But it also it, it led me to truly understand that if it's important to mark the CEO of Salesforce, it's important to everyone in the company, and that he really does care. And that is very powerful for a leader to do, make sure you get in there and you look at it, don't just look at the dashboards and the reports, look at the deals, look at the details, and jump in and see where you can help. And you only need to do it about once or twice a month. And a whole sales team will hear about it.

It also helps, in my perspective, and my experience, to speak from truth speak from fat, as opposed to you know, I can't tell you the number of times I've been in various meetings where people are spouting opinions and conjecture. And you ask, what's the data behind that? Well, I don't have data that's specifically supported, but my impression is well, okay, speaking from from truth and having those tools that track the data. That's to me, that's such a more effective way to lead, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And back to your original question, as far as the the most important mechanics and important pieces of sales, I think, number one is that we partner really closely with marketing, marketing and sales are really one in the same thing. It's just coming at it from a different part of the sales cycle marketing is coming at it from the very, very inception. And sales is coming at it from the first demonstration through close. And we're really making sure when marketing and sales work together that we're communicating the same message. Because marketing does such a great job of helping us create the messages, we have to be consistent across both what we're telling you before they even pick up the phone to call us to what we're telling them as they're about to sign the contract. So there's consistency. I think that's really important. The messaging is there, but then also how the bridge between marketing and sales is your your EBR SDR team, your sales development reps and your enterprise development reps that are taking those leads and responding to them as fast as humanly possible. Because that's the most important thing in this day and age is that make sure you've got excellent Junior salespeople that really are being trained to move into sales that are working those leads and turning them into qualified opportunities. So they go from an MQL to SQL quickly. Because time is of the essence, I think 24 hours, you've already lost the deal. In today's day and age, you've got to respond quickly. So that's one thing we've developed out as our EBR team SDR team that really makes sure we follow up on those. And then making sure that they're working closely with sales, many times that team has put in marketing. But I believe that is a sales function because you want them selling as soon as that lead comes in, you want a person that's qualifying, doing discovery and getting all the right information so that we can be best prepared for that first meeting of that first demonstration. And then obviously, making sure that the sales team is all in in alignment with what we're doing. And I think having that build and in the sales team, and then I believe every sales leader should be able to jump in on every deal. He can't on every deal, but wherever you need to, because quite honestly, the board will call me and ask me about a deal. And I have to know about it. And I know that sometimes seems like I'm dropping down below my job responsibility. But every deal should be that important that especially large complex ones that I'm ready to answer all those questions. So getting involved helping the sales team and talking about what the challenges are is really important. So rolling up your sleeves being willing to jump in, because a lot of times you don't get to this position, unless you're a pretty darn good salespeople person, excuse me, you hope that you're a great leader. But more importantly, you're here because you know how to sell and you want to teach others how to sell. So make sure you're involved in leading the charge.

Scott, you mentioned something about the 24 hour turnaround for an BDR? Or I think you may have said EDR world? Yeah, this is something I've seen a lot of companies, they're not doing very well at I've even seen some stats go as so far as say 72 hours is what they're seeing in a b2b world. Now I'm coming b2c, as my experience as a consumer when I reach out to businesses, of course, for things I'm interested in, but I'm curious to know from your lens. Why does that happen? What what is what are teams not putting in place that that you are that's allowing you or your business to to respond so quickly? And hit that SLA? That's a great question.

I think one of the biggest mistakes is, we often just shoot the leads to the sales reps, who are typically on a plane in a car with a customer and we expect them to respond while traveling. And while they're working on current opportunities. And even the best sales people in the world can't always get to lead right away. So developing out that inside sales team, our sales development rep roles that can respond that are ready, and also do even outbound. So they're constantly talking to prospects is really the key to it. And even if you just have two or three of those folks, even one just that is their full time job is to respond to leads and make sure that it's taken care of is the most important.

We think it's the same skill set that that kind of outbound prospecting skill set and that inbound lead qualification skill set, do you think you can hire one person that does both?

Yes, and we have in the past, but what you start developing, as you see that person grow into a person that can do more outbound, can make those connections versus just inbound response. Typically, that takes a little bit of time, and time and seat and time making the pitches. It's interesting. We just did an event in Chicago, and we had both our STR and ABRs. At the event. And afterwards, I was speaking to Mr. was great. I got to do the pitch 150 times a day to everybody. It was just amazing how they just develop their skills over and over again, like anything else in life. But those are two separate things. You've got to be able to target the right people do the right research, ask the right questions, send the right email, and make the right connections through LinkedIn or other tools to get that warm introduction. The other ones are just make sure we're super responsive. They know the right answers. And they know how to get specialist on that can answer a more complicated question.

So we've been talking about doing everything right, let's shift gears here for a second. And just thinking back across your sales, leadership career, what are the top two or three mistakes that you made yourself? Any stories in there? How that led your own personal growth? That sort of thing?

It's an interesting question. I'm trying to think about it from different phases of my career and my life. I think, early on in sales, I think one of the hardest things and mistakes is the old adage, know when to fish or cut bait. Because sometimes you're not going to win a deal, you're better off walking from a deal that you're not going to win instead of wasting everybody's time and resources. And I think that's something it's very hard for salespeople to walk away from any deal. And I think many times even the buyer knows once they've got you so far into the process, you've got so much invested, you're not going to pull back. And I think I realized that early on during a sales engagement where we received pretty good information, that customer was always going to buy a competitor's product. And so I met with our executive sponsor, I said you know what we're going to we're going to pull out of this and we'll let it just appears that you guys are moving towards another solution. Nope. No harm, no foul. No offense taken but let you guys move on. It was amazing what Did that that executive listen? No, no, no, no, wait a second, wait a second. There's there's five people that want the other solution. But I believe you're the best solution. And I'm fighting this battle. And I believe I can get you there. It's like, okay, so he told us everything we needed to know, just because we were like, Okay, maybe this isn't for us. And that was we ended up winning that. And I think there was a lesson learned that sometimes just be honest, be open that if you don't think you're a good fit, walk away, and sometimes it's best to walk away, because there's nothing worse than half the company working up deal and you lose it.

Hey, Lizzie, I love how we're talking to a seasoned sales executive where I asked him, Where did you make a mistake, and he turned it right around and how he turned that mistake into a when I'm talking to the right kind of person here.

I tried to think of other top mistakes, oh, there's so many to choose from. And I'm trying to figure out the ones that aren't too embarrassing. I think maybe one of the mistakes as a leader of sales teams, I think, any kind of a leader, I think, I realized that command and control doesn't work. But I think we were raised. As an adult, you should be in control of your life, you should be in control of your finances of your family of your children, of your interactions with coworkers, and you should command control, that that doesn't work any longer. It worked maybe in the 1950s and works in the military. But I think in business, there's a great book by Steven Covey, titled trust and inspire. And it's about as a leader, you have to trust inspire your people to command and control just doesn't work any longer. And I and I really love that because that's how I've always operated. And I believe that if you walk the talk, and you show examples of how you were committed to the company, and the product and what you're doing and the impact we have, that's what inspires your team. So I think maybe early on, when I first became a sales leader, I kind of thought, wow, control, I have to manage everything. No, you have to trust your people, so that they trust you. And you have to inspire them to move forward. So I think maybe just taking that in my first sales leader was probably my mistake that I learned from early on. I'm trying to think of another one. That's not too embarrassing, but I think it comes to you. I think being as open and honest with every customers what they want from. I think back to the, if the answer is no, you say yes. But here's why this is a better solution. Being honest, or, or the other one, I think is, if they're not putting their if they just want to plug and play solution, and they think they don't have to do much effort, you have to tell the customer you're going to fail. And that's a really hard conversation to have to say if this is your approach, you're going to take the example I've seen sometimes it's they take an administrative assistant, they put them in charge of a major software implement, because they're small, and they just, that's the person who has time for it. And if the executives are too busy, you're gonna fail.

Especially in the CRM space, or I think it's underestimated that there's a partnership involved. And there's work that's required on each party's part. And each party will be unsuccessful if neither party does their part. I think that's a really good lesson to bring up.

Yes. And then I think also along those lines is building a mutual plan with a customer, because you have to put on paper what their commitment is to make it successful. Executive sponsorship, executive leadership, executives rolling up their sleeves and getting involved in what they really want from it. And then somebody who's managing it from a project management side on their side, the standards of what enterprise companies do, but a lot of times small to medium sized companies just want to throw it at sill and accounting and say, Phil, this is your baby, you run it. And that's not how you're going to be successful with any software implementation.

Yes, so the excellent point. Thanks for raising that. Well, it has been awesome having you with us today. Scott, we have one last question for you that we found the last year seems to have the same answer, but we'll give it a shot anywhere. Where can our audience find you if they're interested in learning more about you?

Sure. So obviously, LinkedIn, and then also hashtag Syspro, on LinkedIn, our marketing team, and our sales team is quite active. I constantly get comments from friends and family, just seeing some of the neat things we're doing, whether it's social work, volunteer work, or even just our recent Partner Summit, where we built bicycles for underprivileged kids, just those types of things are really important to put out there and just learning more about Syspro in the community.

Oh, that's great. I'm following it right now.

Okay, great. And there's some funny pictures of me sitting on a very small bicycle. So feel free to poke fun at that. Love it.

Well, thank you. We very much enjoyed getting to know you better today, and wish you nothing but success ahead of you. You're the kind of boss that I'd love to work for. You're just a fantastic Chief Revenue Officer and how to build a great team around you. That's really great to hear.

Well, thank you, Clint. That's an amazing compliment that I don't take lightly. Thank you very much for that, especially with your achievements. And Lizzie, thank you very much. Appreciate the questions. Hopefully this was helpful. I've really enjoyed speaking with you.